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© 2006 - present, Sabrina

translation by Arina

TARJA TURUNEN and TOBIAS SAMMET from AVANTASIA together on the title - some of you will surely wonder. But there is a stronger connection between them than it seems. Both artists characterize with their current project a style, that creates furors under the banner of opera or bombast-metal. But what lies under this label - and especially: is this really new? METAL HAMMER searched for the roots of the genre and asked both protagonists, Tarja and Tobias about their influences, ideals and visions for the future.

BOMBASTIC RIFFS
The idea to combine metal with classical music is almost as old as the history of the rock-music. Thereby, operas and symphonies are based on more complex structures than metal. Therefore is the rhythmic element in the classical music less distinctive than in the guitar, bass and drums dominated rock world. Furthermore were the huge masters of the classical music more knowledgeable than the vast majority of the contemporary metal composers, who compared to Beethoven, Bach, Mozart or Wagner only an amatheurish knowledge on the theory of harmonics, fugues and minuetes have. Even thought these music genres are different, many similarities can be found at a closer look.

THE FIRST STEPS
The first official rock opera of the music history - the album TOMMY from the year 1969 of the British band The Who - was a success, yet it was only thematically similar to an opera and all the rest as classical breathed on (?). As DEEP PURPLE the legendary CONCERTO FOR GROUP AND ORCHESTRA later released, was it clear, in spite of their instigator Jon Lord (keyboards, piano), that these experiments could lead to a cultural clash. A lack of understanding dominated both sides, and the crossover of rock an opera was ranked at first as aborted. But then were released in 1971 JESUS CHRIST SUPERSTAR (with Deep-Purple singer Ian Gillian) - quasi the Symphony of the Flower Power generation - and PICTURES AT AN EXHIBITION of Emerson, Lake & Palmer, a rock adaption of Mussorgkis piano suite "Bilder einer Ausstellung" (Pictures At An Exhibition) of the year 1874. Suddenly, all critics agreed: It actually works!

METALLIZED CLASSIC
The insight, that both music genres a related structured dramatic unites, enforces itself cumulative: Rock and Metal are - as well as classical music - drawn through by strong dynamic, big feelings and opulent arrangements. On one side: strings, wind players and choirs - on the other side: guitars, guitars and once again guitars, one above the other layered or next to each other placed. So it can practically not last long, until the metallized form of the rock music, that in the beginning of the '70 years finally its own style term "heavy metal" found, classical music, operas and symphonies for it discovered.
The commercial successes held certainly long years in reasonable barriers. Exceptions are Therion's THELI (1996) with the admiration of its creator Christofer Johnsson for Richard Wagner. The skew combination of metal ad classical music of YEAH! YEAH! DIE! DIE!... DEATH METAL OPERA IN DEEP C of the Finnish band Waltari asks for respect among colleges - the buyers however lingered refraining. Not even Rhapsody Of Fire - the founders of the Italian speed-symphonic-metal, that later for commercial break "Film Score Metal" baptized was - can however touch that, what around the turn of the millennium initially Apocalyptica caused - later bands like Within Temptation and especially Nightwish: a mass movement.

THE BREAKOUT
Thanks to the fantastic composer Tuomas Holopainen and the trained soprano Tarja Turunen became metal-opera a success model: Nightwish CDs are sold like fresh bread, with the song "Nemo" landed the band a kind Evergreen: people can imagine themselves in a row with "Cats" or "Aquarius/Let The Sunshine In" (from the musical HAIR). Since then they are all swimming with the wave of the supposed success: the Epicas, the After Forevers, the Sirenias and the Imperias of this world. (i can't understand the sentence that follows here Confused )

THE GERMAN SCENE
And how does it look with the german bands? When you behold the charts, you notice that Tobias Sammet's Avantasia succeded the breakthrough. Rage's LINGUA MORTIS (1996) or Haggard's AND THOU SHALL TRUST...THE SEER (1996) are intersting works - commercial, yet of little importance. Avantasia's double turn THE METAL OPERA PT I. & II. on the other hand (can't find the translation of that word): 350.000 units were sold - an unequalled peak (?)
So what do Nightwish and Avantasia better than the other bands? We have asked Tarja Turunen, who has just finished recording her debut album MY WINTER STORM, and Tobias Sammet, who will release the the Avantasia CD THE SCARECROW in the end of January, these and a few more questions about "classical music and metal".


Tarja, Tobias, are Avantasia, Tarja Turunen and Nightwish so successful because you are always developing as artist?
Tarja: Yes, and because the music is very complex and full of pictures. You can find yourself in this music, slip in a world of fantasy and experience huge feelings.
Tobias: This phenomenon is not only connected with the style, but also with the musicians: Nightwish, Tarja and Avantasia are good acts, who never overshot their goals. I would categorize the new Avantasia album, the Scarecrow as Folk-opera, because it is accessible to many rock listeners. It's not bad when your music is understood by many people.

What do you think at when you hear the term "metal opera"?
Tarja: Hard to say. I think it says so much, and at the same time nothing at all. What do you think, Tobi?
Tobias: Well I think at rich choirs and overhasty double bass-rhythms. I think that these things have got out of the control in the last years. For some bands it is like a competiton: does it work more bombastic? More cheesier? But I have to say that Nightwish does not belong here, because I think that the new CD is really good.

What is your connection with the opera?
Tarja: I have a really down-to-earth and close connection with opera and classical music. I am in contact with this kind of music even only through my lyrical voice, with which I always work and which I have to train every day. That's why I listen to opera for relaxing, but also when I have to rehearse/study a new program.
Tobias: I actually don't know any opera singers personally, but there are some songs that I have always loved, like Richard Wagner's work or Beethoven's 9th Symphony. When I listen to "Freude schöner Götterfunken", I get the same goosebumps like when I listen to Aerosmith's "I Don't Want To Miss A Thing".

When did you visit opera for the first time?
Tarja: I think that was when I was 14 years old. I was to an opera festival in Finland, close to Kitee where I was born. It was "die Zauberflöte" bei Mozart and I was really fascinated.
Tobias: How is my first opera called? Sambuca? (laughs) Ok, a small joke. I watched lots of musicals, like "Starlight Express", "Jesus Christ Superstar" and "The Phantom Of The Opera". Actually Avantasia reminds me more of musicals than opera. But should I call the first two Avantasia CDs Metal Music? That sounds foolish.

Which composers have influenced you the most?
Tarja: There are lots of composers that have impressed me. The most though has Antonio Dvo ak from Poland and especially his opera "Ruskala", whose aria "Song To The Moon" is my favourite song, because it tells a moving story and deep feelings awakes. From the rock music I really like Whitesnake.
Tobias: I think that Whitesnake are really good too - but Freddie Mercury and Desmond Child are better - it doesn't matter if they compose something for Cher, Bon Jovi or Kiss. This is what an excellent composer does: no matter who is performing his song - you can always tell who wrote it. That's why I like in the classical music above all Richard Wagner who built an arch of excitement in an inimmitable way and that's why rich choruses so good sound: there are some calm moments, after which he lets the music blast louder. Things like these can now only be found in film music, like Jerry Goldsmith or - like on Tarja's debut album - Hans Zimmer.

Is opera not too old and improperly for popular music?
Tobias: To be honest, I don't think in time slots. Opera is timeless for me: what was good 300 years ago can't be suddenly bad.
Tarja: I think so too. I don't think that younger people can't understand opera and that they think its it conservative. Classical music and opera is a source of inspiration for many musicians.
Tobias: Antiquated are only the artists, who stay the same level for many years.

Is there a certain target audience, that you are aiming at?
Tobias: Our target audiences are all people who enjoy music.
Tarja: As an artist you never think at a target audience: you make the music only for personal reasons. I don't produce my music for stereotyped people, but because I love what I do.
Tobias: Exactly. You can't make your music after an alledged group of buyers.
Tarja: When anybody feels touched by me and my music, that is the most admirable thing - no matter if he/she is young or old. It doesn't matter either where the fans are from - America, Asia, Europe or Africa. Arbitrative is the emotional access.

Do you feel rather commited to the U-Music oder E-Music?
Tobias: This is funny; I have thought about this question not long ago, as I compleated a few bows (?) for GEMA. There are also differences between honest and enjoyable music.
Tarja: I don't feel oblidged to anybody or anything, and that can be heard really good on my new album MY WINTER STORM. The feelings are really important for me, and not the direction where the song goes. I have first the song in my head and I decide only after that in which direction it should go. You can use guitars and heavy instruments on one song, and classical instruments and opera atmospheres for the next one. I don't feel myself obliged to any music genre, not to metal and not to opera. It's exactly the opposite: for me it is a big challenge to combine these two worlds and let them exist one near the other.
Tobias: Besides, there is a question of your attitude and preferences: If I had to decide between U and E, I would surely be unsignificant but therefore amusing.

Are opera and metal opposites?
Tarja: No, of course not. I have experienced lots of gentleness, sensibility, clarity and beauty in metal. There are also a lot of harsh sides, filth and abysm in the classical music too. It is dependent on the actual feelings of the work.
Tobias: Metal and Opera are not complete opposites like jazz and opera - in so far limps such a comparison in general. Everything that sounds good when is thrown in a pan, is also worth to be thown in a pan.

What do opera and metal have im common and what are the most significant differences?
Tobias: Pop fans are annoyed by opera singers as much as by metal singers. This is something they have in common. What about the differences?
Tarja: They are most in the staging of the genres: it is a big difference if you go to a metal concert or to an opera. The audience reacts in diferent ways, but the energy from the stage is the same. In opera, the performers try to create big feelings. As an audience, you have to be patient, you're not allowed to jump in the middle or applaud.
Tobias: I think that both genres are ascertained by strong harmonies, therewith indeed contrary, but not opposed. When you listen to Edguy you can hear many great melodies, even like when you listen to complicated guitar parts of other bands. Edguy was never a riff-band, they are orientated to harmonies.

What do you have to do when you combine these two genres and what mistakes should you avvoid?
Tobias: Music shouldn't be like sports and they mustn't have the olympical thought of "higher-faster-farther".
Tarja: And you shouldn't copy, but you must pick the most fascinating parts from both genders and to combine them to a whole.
Tobias: There is only one golden rule: what sounds good is good! You don't have to follow any other principles.
Tarja: I agree. It is also very hard to find something new. In general everything was already composed at least once. Classical music is the root of the current music. Pop appeared just later.

By the way: How superficial can metal be and how harsh can opera be?
Tobias: Metal can as superficial sound, as the author wants it to be. Everything is allowed, as long as the composer wants it like that. He decides alone how the music will sound.
Tarja: Who can decide if something swallow is? Everybody has his/her own opinion. Music carries only general, deep feelings, so the boundary line is anyway very cursive and subjective.
Tobias: I am actually not a fan of stereotyped thinking. Is AC/DC hard rock? Or blues rock? Or metal? The question is id this is even relevant, that a certain clishee served is.

Are operas inevitably associated with orchestra instruments, or is it possible to score real operas with metal instruments?
Tarja: Yes, you can. I have already played classical music with E-guitars.
Tobias: I have to contradict that vehemently. Mekong Delta tried that once, but they failed grandiosely. Something like that should be banned.
Tarja: Of course it is true that there is a huge difference if you compose something with orchestra instruments or with rock instruments. If you compose something operatic and use an E-guitar, then the people say it is a rock opera. Even if this doesn't have to attune, but is only a cliché.

Do the singers need to have a certain education in order to sing metal operas?
Tarja: Yes, of course. Besides they have to train a lot and also train their voice again and again. I would never label myself as an opera singer, I am not skilled enough for that.
Tobias: Ojection again! Alice Cooper played the part of the King Herodes in "Jesus Christ Superstar" in 1996. And I can tell you: he was the best king Herodes so far.

So there were definitely metal singers, who were in that position?
Tarja: I don't think so.
Tobias: Still, you can in all cases. Michael Kiske sounds in his register good and he could sing operas, probably even Tom Waits, who is effectively the "non-singer" of the scene. He is the prime example of how more important is your character than your ability. I, however would be at most suitable for musicals.
Tarja: But singing classical operas is another matter altogether.
Tobias: For me is the character of your voice more important than the technics. Bon Scott, Alice Cooper and Freddie Mercury are the most important rock singers of the history - and therewith suitable for operas.

What advice would you give to young musicians who want to start a metal-opera project?
Tarja: They should be open and tolerant, and to accept the challenge. For that they need a lot of knowledge about the classical mussical and the rock world. They should listen a lot, and to be in the position, their vision for other people plausible to make. And when they have a vision, they should ask themselves honestly if this is strong enough to face all challenges, training and even the setbacks.
Tobias: That is true. I would at first ask them if this is worth sacrificing their private life (laughs). No, seriously my advice would be: write good songs and make them easy. You can realize your own mistakes when you are in the middle of the work anyway. No one can protect you from that. You have to make mistakes, so that you will learn from them. But Tarja is also right: you need talent and some certain basic knowledge about the harmonics.